Mayor Doug Wilder Sounds off on Clinton Right Wing Echo Chamber

CBS News
Face the Nation

BOB SCHIEFFER, host:

And with us now from Richmond, Virginia, the former governor of Virginia and now the mayor of Richmond, Doug Wilder. He supports Barack Obama, of course. And joining us from Indianapolis, Indiana, Senator Evan Bayh. He is a big supporter of Hillary Clinton.

Well, I want to ask you first, Mayor Wilder, you heard what Jim Clyburn just said. He said he thinks that no matter what happens at that convention, that Democrats will come out of it united. I remember when you two were on this broadcast some weeks back. You did not seem so sure of that. You said if people got the impression that the nomination was being taken away from one of these candidates unfairly by the superdelegates, that there would be riots. You said it would--that 1968 would be nothing to what happened.

Mayor DOUG WILDER (Democrat, Richmond; Obama Supporter): At the--at the--I said at the convention...

SCHIEFFER: What's your analysis these days?

Mayor WILDER: Well, at the convention--and I think Jim Clyburn is saying pretty much the same thing--that if that perception, if that impression is real, then there would be a riotous convention. Not in the streets, none of that nonsense.

SCHIEFFER: Yeah.

Mayor WILDER: But people would be tremendously upset. And I would say that in Virginia, for instance, Obama'd had a tremendous victory. We had the smallest number of African-Americans voting in Virginia than in any Southern state, only about 15 percent voting population. And yet, I can tell you, I hear from a great number of persons, many whites, who really believe that the process should be fair, that it should ensue, that the delegates should be chosen and that the pledged delegates, as some have called them, and the unpledged delegates, I think the majority of the people and I think the majority of the delegates ultimately will see, and as you pointed out, it would take an unprecedented landslide in the next ensuing primaries or the caucuses for Hillary to catch up prior to the convention. The question is--and I think those persons who are unpledged who are superdelegates, I think they're going to do the right thing.

SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, let's go to Senator Bayh, and we're very fortunate that Senator Bayh carries his cell phone with him at all times because, for inexplicable reasons, our sound has gone out between here and Indianapolis, so we'll be talking to him on a televised cell phone contest this morning.

Senator Bayh, how's it...

Senator EVAN BAYH (Democrat, Indiana; Clinton Supporter): I usually--I usually sound best when the sound goes out.

SCHIEFFER: Well, let's talk about what's going on because we do want to get your take on what's happening in your state of Indiana. It appears that Hillary Clinton is closing in North Carolina. The last I heard, it was pretty close to even according to the polls in Indiana. What--was the--tell us what's your take?

Sen. BAYH: Well, Bob, you heard right. The race here is very close. She started off behind about eight points in the first poll I saw six weeks ago. Then it closed to four, then three, and I think now it's about dead even. And she's appealing to those middle-class economic issues--job creation, health care costs, the price of gasoline, college affordability--those kind of things that out here in middle America people are feeling squeezed economically, and she's--she wants to be their champion, and I think that's why she's on the move.

And if she does win our state, Bob, it'll be a very significant victory because we're trying to become the first state that neighbors Illinois that she will win, the first state where she started off behind and actually caught up to win. And also, in our state, I don't know how things are in Virginia with Doug, it may be the same way, but we allow people other than Democrats to vote in Indiana, unlike Pennsylvania, and so among Democrat's she's doing real well. She needs to do well also among the independents and some of those moderate Republicans.

SCHIEFFER: Why do you think is, senator, that she's been able to get through to blue-collar voters in some of these states, and Senator Obama has not? What is she doing right, and what is he doing wrong on that front?

Sen. BAYH: I think it's the perception that--a couple of things. First, her strength. She's a fighter, and I think people know that it's not going to be easy to deliver the kind of results that they want. And it's her fortitude. In some ways, the fact that she's been knocked down, and what did she do? She didn't--there have been all these calls out there for her to quit, to go away, to disenfranchise the people of our state, for example. But she says, `No, I'm in this for the American people. I'm going to stand strong for them.' And so it's that grit and determination I think people like.

Plus, the level of experience, the ability to deliver results. Barack is a very formidable person, a gifted candidate, and is very persuasive any non--any number of levels, but it's that--between two good people, that perception that one has a little bit more experience and probably can actually deliver the kind of change that people are looking for. I think that's...

SCHIEFFER: OK.

Sen. BAYH: ...resonating well here in the Heartland.

SCHIEFFER: Well, let me just ask Governor Wilder on that front.

Governor, if she should wind up winning out there in Indiana, and at least just coming close in North Carolina, shouldn't she hang in there? Shouldn't she stay in despite what people say, that this is tearing down both of them?

Mayor WILDER: I think she should stay in as long as she chooses, and I think, as has been pointed out by Jim Clyburn, that number two person is the very important person.

But I want to go back to a question you asked Evan, and you likewise referenced it a bit to Jim Clyburn. Why are the poll numbers showing a certain element of the voter being unreachable, as far as Barack is concerned? Let's get real. Who has been running all of the ads on a regular basis? The bloggers, the right-wing commentators on the radio, who are they supporting? Not Barack Obama. They are literally begging people--and these are Republicans--literally begging people, `Please vote for Hillary Clinton.' They have no intention of supporting Hillary Clinton in November. And why are they doing that? Why is it Barack Obama can reach what some call the elite voter, but he can't reach the others? That's poppycock. There is a concentrated effort to drive those voters away from him and to drive them to Hillary Clinton because many of them think that Hillary will be the weaker.

On the issues of the economy, this so-called gimmick, this gas tax gimmick, 30, $28 dollars for the people if they would forgo the tax, look what it does for the jobs. Two to 300,000 jobs gone because the money won't be there for the--for the project. So I think there's a hidden message here, Bob, and I think the answer comes from those persons who should be saying why they are asking everyone to vote for Hillary Clinton in a Democratic primary.

SCHIEFFER: All right. I've got to let Senator Bayh just respond to that. About 20 seconds, though.

Sen. BAYH: Well, quickly, Bob, my friend Doug calls it a gimmick. Senator Obama has called the gas tax moratorium phony. He voted for it three times in the Illinois state legislature.

Mayor WILDER: But he admitted--he admitted he was wrong, though. He admitted he was wrong.

Sen. BAYH: Three times. He understood--he understood then what--he understood then what middle American, middle class families know now, and that is that if the choice is between 10 billion more dollars for the big oil companies or money in their pockets, more money in their pockets during these tight times, that's the right thing to do, and that's what Hillary Clinton wants to do.

SCHIEFFER: I'm...

Sen. BAYH: On terms of electability--well...

SCHIEFFER: We've got to...

Sen. BAYH: ...Bob, do we need to go?

SCHIEFFER: Yeah, we got to go.

Sen. BAYH: OK.

SCHIEFFER: I'm very sorry. Thanks for bringing your phone. We'll be back with our--with our final...

Sen. BAYH: OK.

SCHIEFFER: ...no, we'll come back with another segment here in just a second.

(Announcements)

SCHIEFFER: And we're back again with the Virginia former Governor Doug Wilder, now mayor of Richmond and Senator Evan Bayh. We're playing "Does the Equipment Work Here?" We may have to go back to the cell phones.

But let me go back to you, Senator Bayh, because I cut you off a little abruptly. One of your fellow Hoosiers, the former head of the DNC, Joe Andrew, switched his allegiance from Clinton to Obama last week, urged other Hoosiers to do the same. Said he thought the primary process had become bad for the Democratic Party, and that a vote for Hillary Clinton is a vote to continue this process, and that is a vote that assists John McCain. Do you think Hoosiers will listen to him?

Sen. BAYH: I don't, Bob. You know, it's a free world, people are allowed to make up their own minds. I respect that, you know, his decision. But look, I don't think we should cut the process off. I think it's kind of a strange thing to come to Indiana and say, `We ought to--we ought to stop the process so you can't vote.' I mean, there are millions of people out there in Kentucky and West Virginia and Oregon and other places. They have a right to vote. So let's let the process go forward, as Jim and Doug were saying. Let's total up the votes at the end of this and let's see who actually won. That's number one.

Number two, in our state, Bob, for 40 years we haven't mattered. I mean, people fly over, they kind of look out their airplane window and wonder who those folks are down there, but they never stop unless they want to raise money. Now they're coming to us. They're listening to us. They care about our concerns. That's a good thing. We have thousands of more volunteers, thousands of more contributors, Indiana will be more competitive up and down the ballot because of this process being allowed to go forward.

Final thing I'd say, Doug was talking about Republicans coming over and that kind of thing, and I don't want--Doug, I agree with you on one thing. We don't want Rush Limbaugh deciding our primary. But if you look at the polls today--the average of all the polls, not just one here or there--in the state of Ohio, which was the key state last time, Hillary now runs about eight or nine points better than Barack. In Florida, which was the key state in 2000, she runs about 10 or 11 points better. She's inched ahead of John McCain nationally. Barack's a little behind. So all these things suggest that with Democrats, independents, Republicans, she's doing very, very well.

SCHIEFFER: So does that mean, Mayor Wilder, that she probably is more electable as this process goes on, that probably she is the stronger candidate? Is--that seems to be what Senator Bayh is saying here.

Mayor WILDER: Absolutely not. Because you've got to ask the flip side of the coin, and that is why is she not doing as well with other voters? And are those voters going to be there? You referenced it earlier on. And so what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. You can't assume that a majority of the block of the Democratic vote is going to be just coming to the fold just because it's been there all the time. I predict that the party would be united. You look at John McCain's foreign policy speech. My God, these are the things we should be talking about, not Jeremiah Wright. Look how he's talking about dissing Russia and forgetting the need to get closer with having a relationship with people to be a hegemony against terrorism and other things.

One final thing I wanted to say. Evan pointed out that Obama voted for this gimmick, this gas tax. Yes. When he was in the Indiana state legislature, and he is the first admit that he learned from his mistake because it was wrong. That's why he knows that this is a gimmick that can't work.

SCHIEFFER: Well, one thing we see for sure, there is a divide among Democratic voters, young vs. old, rich vs. poor.

Mayor WILDER: Yes.

SCHIEFFER: African-American vs. white. So is the answer in the end--and I'll both of you this question, you first, Governor Wilder--is it the so-called dream ticket that has both of them on it? Thirty seconds, governor.

Mayor WILDER: No. Who is that person who has talked about healing, bringing all people together--not rich nor poor, not black, nor white, nor ethnicities or religions, but speaking for the people of America? That's been Barack Obama. It is not a matter of picking which side to be on for a particular issue, and that's why I really do believe America's rising to its highest possibility of potential. We will have one of those persons, in my judgment, as the next president of the United States.

SCHIEFFER: What about you, Senator Bayh? Is the dream ticket viable?

Sen. BAYH: Well, they'll both be working together in the fall, Bob. I feel very strongly about that. I know both of these people. They know that what really matters is progress for our country on some of these economic issues, on a better policy in Iraq, those kinds of things. And I think Doug was right. One of them's going to be the next president. The question is, who is best positioned to actually deliver the results that we need? I think most Democrats understand, that's what we need to focus on, not some of these peripheral distractions.

SCHIEFFER: All right.

Sen. BAYH: So whether they're running together on a ticket or not, they'll be together campaigning in the fall.

SCHIEFFER: This time we really do have to go, and I will note both of you artfully dodged the question.

Back with a final word in just a moment.